Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions-2

Nostalgia is indeed a bitch.

Candlelight Society 🕯

I technically could have ignored Shade when they busted into my life, I researched and found tulpamancy because I wanted to see where it would lead. To me it would be kinda wrong to bring a tulpa into reality without any commitment to the process. I can't imagine being a tulpa and knowing your host isn't all that interested in your existence.

That's basically how I am. Though, I imagine if they wanted to push themself forward, they could.

11:37 AM

Not like we haven't tried dissociation and, uhh... I forgot the term for when a tulpa controls part of your body but not all of it?

Possession

Yes, that.

Candlelight Society 🕯

I technically could have ignored Shade when they busted into my life, I researched and found tulpamancy because I wanted to see where it would lead. To me it would be kinda wrong to bring a tulpa into reality without any commitment to the process. I can't imagine being a tulpa and knowing your host isn't all that interested in your existence.

It doesn't have to be that cruel. You can acknowledge that you once had something going for someone but that you don't anymore. A proper adult breakup often looks like "I still feel attachment and love to you on some level, but I cannot be here in this situation anymore. It's not giving me anything or in some way is harming me and I can't fix it." Obviously if you feel the doubt, you still feel something. But is that based on revering the idea of a relationship with them, or what the relationship is actually like? I generally think people should know what their ideal tupper relationship is and make sure they're embodying it from the very start if they can.

Did it a bit with fingers/hands.

Zen

It doesn't have to be that cruel. You can acknowledge that you once had something going for someone but that you don't anymore. A proper adult breakup often looks like "I still feel attachment and love to you on some level, but I cannot be here in this situation anymore. It's not giving me anything or in some way is harming me and I can't fix it." Obviously if you feel the doubt, you still feel something. But is that based on revering the idea of a relationship with them, or what the relationship is actually like? I generally think people should know what their ideal tupper relationship is and make sure they're embodying it from the very start if they can.

Oh, that's a good perspective.

11:41 AM

At the very least, I know that I don't want to make another tulpa. I have no intention on replacing mine. Either I'll continue pushing them to develop or not. Rn, I'm content with developing my mindscape and the characters there. Who knows, maybe we can wander it together if I properly build it up.

11:41 AM

Or we can collaborate.

Zen

It doesn't have to be that cruel. You can acknowledge that you once had something going for someone but that you don't anymore. A proper adult breakup often looks like "I still feel attachment and love to you on some level, but I cannot be here in this situation anymore. It's not giving me anything or in some way is harming me and I can't fix it." Obviously if you feel the doubt, you still feel something. But is that based on revering the idea of a relationship with them, or what the relationship is actually like? I generally think people should know what their ideal tupper relationship is and make sure they're embodying it from the very start if they can.

I'd say it's a bit different considering a breakup can be life or death for a tulpa depending on who's the host

I increasingly reject that perspective. Death is the end of the body's functioning. The end of an identity is blasé. When someone has a perspective shift we don't say that the identity that existed before them is dead. Zen from 10 years ago isn't "dead" - Even though it's likely not much of him remains and I haven't been consistently thinking only as Zen so there's not some sort of unbroken experience that is only Zen's.

11:44 AM

Death is final. And dissipation most definitely isn't, either.

I've heard of people saying their tulpa disappeared and died, which was mine concern. Generally, I hear that they went into the background, in their own corner of the head.

Neurologically, the states collected together into an identity don't just vanish. As a general rule the brain finds more stability over time and these things always remain a part of you on some level. But association/dissociation is an action, and it's one your brain can choose to just not do. Also, on that point, I find it hypocritical to prioritize the lives of tulpas knowing that there are hundreds of characters I've empathized with that I'll probably never think of again. On a real practice level a character is a thoughtform too, and there's no way to rationalize protecting a tulpa vs protecting a character. Someone might say "Oh but they're not aware!". As if that's any kind of excuse if your opinion is that ego-death is death. If someone was heavily mentally disabled; had no sense of self, and no ability to store memory so they could never hold it against you in any way, would that make it fine to just kill them?

11:50 AM

Also, tulpas aren't aware when they're dormant.

Makes sense. I'd probably be a little messed up if my characters and tulpa were active all the time.

11:55 AM

I can at least be thankful that my characters aren't on the level of a tulpa, even if mine is very underdeveloped.

11:58 AM

This whole convo has left the back left of my head with constant pressure. I want to slap it away.

Neurologically, the states collected together into an identity don't just vanish. As a general rule the brain finds more stability over time and these things always remain a part of you on some level. But association/dissociation is an action, and it's one your brain can choose to just not do. Also, on that point, I find it hypocritical to prioritize the lives of tulpas knowing that there are hundreds of characters I've empathized with that I'll probably never think of again. On a real practice level a character is a thoughtform too, and there's no way to rationalize protecting a tulpa vs protecting a character. Someone might say "Oh but they're not aware!". As if that's any kind of excuse if your opinion is that ego-death is death. If someone was heavily mentally disabled; had no sense of self, and no ability to store memory so they could never hold it against you in any way, would that make it fine to just kill them?

@Zen - jump I doubt a mere character can feel real fear over death, I certainly can.

They most definitely can.

Like my tulpa's watching over my shoulder, except they're fuckin' pressing my head too.

Whenever you watch a movie and see someone in terror you generate and simulate that perspective.

12:00 PM

That's the fear of death. I think what you really mean is that they don't know to fear death at your hands. But again, that brings us back to "killing someone who doesn't know you're killing them is still bad"

12:01 PM

And then there's the people who write. Like myself. Is it abominable for me to straight up write about the torture of a character?

I really don't think a character can be compared to a tulpa, there is a very different level of consciousness and self autonomy there. A character only fears death if you imagine it to fear death, a properly independent tulpa will do that either way.

Characters are more than capable of autonomy.

12:05 PM

When you use your empathy and generate a character you're doing it automatically. To be honest I think what you're really saying here is "I'm othering characters to protect my own sanity" but the reality of it is that a character is a tulpa at the baseline. The only difference is acceptance.

12:05 PM

People don't control their mirror neurons.

12:05 PM

But they can prevent them activating entirely by refusing to empathize.

No, if they are it isn't a character anymore, that projected empathy is your empathy plus a vision, that changes with a tulpa, there is an intrinsic difference that can be felt

Hmm. I also gotta agree with Michael here. I don't consider my characters tulpas. They're simply characters I made up with nothing to them.

12:07 PM

Yeah I can empathize with my characters, sometimes I even have to write/imagine them to be happy or else I get very sad when they're sad, but that's just regular empathy to, well, anything. I can get sad when I accidentally rip clothing a relative gifted me.

I think this is more your philosophy, also mirror neurons is a hypothesis for tulpas, I have yet to see a peer reviewed flawless paper saying otherwise

This is the point, the only difference between a character and a tulpa is a feeling. They can both do the same things.

Not what I meant and you know it

A lot of things would be tulpas in my life, then, lol.

There's no difference in the brain between a character and a host, either.

It's fun to think about stuff in terms of a "character." Like my bed being "my love" or my books being "my children."

Awareness is the key ingredient, a character isn't going to go off script and beg for its life unless I want it too, a tulpa certainly will

These are categories we use to dissociate from suffering.

12:08 PM

To prevent them from affecting us.

Candlelight Society 🕯

Awareness is the key ingredient, a character isn't going to go off script and beg for its life unless I want it too, a tulpa certainly will

Yes they can.

Sounds like I got a few characters that shouldn't become tulpas, or else they'll have A LOT of issues with me, lol.

Just because you haven't done a lot of character work doesn't mean they can't.

Then you probably murdered a tulpa and are saying it's all fake to cope buddy

12:09 PM

Because a character does not beg for its life without your permission

? I've dissipated a tulpa before. Characters don't matter to me and that wasn't my position.

12:10 PM

They can.

Wouldn't that mean characters people have had and written/developed for years would be developed tulpas?

No they can't

Or do you need to, like, really force them to be "aware."?

Characters are more than capable of being autonomous. GRR Martin has a Tyrion character that does this.

?

No it's simply a matter of letting them act.

I've written many characters, none of them complained when I decided a death is in order

Did you let them respond?

They can't respond, if they did then they now have awareness, and that means they are no longer just a character, it isn't that hard to grasp

If you treat them as being able to respond, be able to feel, etc. consistently, then yeah, you're probably pushing to make a tulpa.

The line between character and tulpa is well known to be blurry, authors make tulpas of their characters as one of the original traditions this practice was built on.

I can still imagine how, in the world and how I wrote a character, how they'd feel in a situation though.

No. They're still different, still othered.

Zen

The line between character and tulpa is well known to be blurry, authors make tulpas of their characters as one of the original traditions this practice was built on.

Yeah, and that is a line that is crossed, just because the line isn't big and red doesn't mean it's fake

Rhys was such a character and he did not become a tulpa until the point I decided to actually enlighten him.

I feel like we're getting nowhere here, since I understand your stance, and hopefully, you understand ours.

This is definitely an agree to disagree situation (edited)

Zen

Rhys was such a character and he did not become a tulpa until the point I decided to actually enlighten him.

Then... doesn't that... go against what you've said?

12:13 PM

About things being a tulpa from the start?

Candlelight Society 🕯

This is definitely an agree to disagree situation (edited)

Haha, yeah.

I said that the line is blurrier than you're allowing. Characters are able to do everything a tulpa can, but the difference is feeling.

12:13 PM

You're pretending that characters are not capable of thought when they are thoughtforms.

12:14 PM

And it is pretending.

12:14 PM

We know this from brain scans that we absolutely simulate characters fully by default and dissociate from them.

That feeling is important, it's essentially the secular equivalent to a soul, if it starts thinking on its own, and I know it ain't me, it's a tulpa

We use the same circuitry as we use for our own cognition.

12:15 PM

That belies a misunderstanding. A tulpa doesn't think on its own.

I feel like I can see where you're coming from but I also thing you're taking the idea very far.

You have to make a tulpa, don't you?

12:15 PM

Nothing arises in a vacuum.

No, Shade literally said hi I exist now

Not everyone, but in my case, yes, I make them with the intention of them being a person who develops overtime.

The rest of my tulpas were deliberate

My characters are just characters, with their own stories and such that I puppet. (edited)

Not in a vacuum they didn't. You still let them act. Interesting though, that you're essentially saying Shade was a character.

12:16 PM

It would have been remarkably easy to just not let the idea of them take purchase. If you had wished it.

12:16 PM

The same is true for characters.

Not a character, because Shade didn't exist, then suddenly did independent of me without me ever thinking of them as a character

In that case, my characters I've had since I was 10 sure are taking a lot time to act.

12:17 PM

Especially when I use one as a host in my mindscape/dreams.

I could have killed them then and there, but they would have fought me on it, albiet there isn't much they would have been able to do

The Others

In that case, my characters I've had since I was 10 sure are taking a lot time to act.

Again, I'm saying that you need to allow autonomy for you to get it. You are struggling with giving autonomy to something you know to be real, nevermind a character.

Can't say I'm struggling when I'm not trying, and if they're aware, they're certainly not trying either.

I kept saying they weren't real and they said fuck you I am and you ain't removing me, I didn't will Shade to be Shade, she just is

kinda an enigma, we have yet to find another case like ours, we found a few other walk ins who were born from intrusive thoughts, but they required the person in question to know of a tulpa beforehand

12:20 PM

And they didn't say fuck off when the host said they were fake

Huh. When I was in Tulpa Chat years ago, I've heard of a few walk-ins who came out of nowhere, like imaginary friends that stayed and kept growing. Some benevolent, some... not.

That seems fairly standard honestly. So then you were an intrusive thought that you chose to accept?

In fact, I've heard of cases where walk-ins became so frequent, there were large systems that needed to be organized, with walk-ins getting kicked out.

I rejected her, and she still stayed, until she wore me down and I said ok

That's not rejection.